A View From the Pew - The Man of Prayer
As a bench-sitter, I’ve had plenty of my pastors make the statement that they are “men of prayer.” Though I have honestly wanted to believe them, I couldn’t help but doubt them. Those folks whose prayer lives go beyond the Zondervan 5-minute devotional don’t wear their prayer lives on their sleeves.
This is a statement about James, the brother of Jesus and the first bishop (pastor) of Jerusalem:
He used to enter the temple alone and was often found kneeling and imploring forgiveness for the people, so that his knees became hard like a camel’s from his continual kneeling in worship of God and in prayer for the people. Because of his superior righteousness he was called the Just and Oblias - meaning, in Greek - “Bulwark of the People” and “Righteousness” - as the prophets declare regarding him. (Eusebius, History of the Church, citing from Hegesippus’s Book 5 of Memoirs)
James’s reputation for righteousness didn’t stop at the four walls of the Temple, but it resonated all throughout Jerusalem. Indeed, Josephus, the Jewish historian, actually blamed the destruction of the Temple on the Jews’s murdering of James:
These things happened to the Jews as retribution for James the Just, who was a brother of Jesus who was called the Christ, for the Jews killed him despite his great righteousness. (Origen quoting Josephus as cited in Eusebius, History of the Church)
Men who spend time with the Father, the Son, the Spirit, and the Word carry with them an almost tangible fragrance of “Christ in you, the hope of glory.” That fragrance oozes a calm and quiet peace of mind and spirit that spills over to the restless sheep. It cannot be feigned, at least to those who have more than a superficial knowledge of the Spirit.
Over the course of many years, I’ve had many pastors claim that God has sent them to pastor me. They’ve spoken of “divine direction,” “divine appointments,” and a calling as sure as Peter’s or Paul’s. In return I am supposed to “be obedient” and “help them do what God’s called them to do.” Maybe that’s true, but let me see those knees.
Love it! Great post; thanks.
Peter,
I’ve been blogging about divine appointments and the direction of God quite a bit lately. Hope it wasn’t me that rubbed you the wrong way! ;-)
Some of the anecdotal things you’ve shared in this series so far, make me wonder what kind of bozos you have had the misfortune of hooking up with as pastors. I probably shouldn’t say that, not knowing them or the situations you referred to personally, but it sure doesn’t sound good. I can’t imagine standing straighfaced in front of my congregation and telling them they exist in order to help me do what I’m called to do. If anything I’m called as pastor to help them fulfill their calls (Ephesians 4:12,16), not vice versa.
Old camel knees! Haven’t read that in a dog’s age, thanks for the Eusibius clips, been enjoying them.
Ditto regarding…
“Over the course of many years, I’ve had many pastors claim that God has sent them to pastor me. They’ve spoken of “divine direction,” “divine appointments,” and a calling as sure as Peter’s or Paul’s. In return I am supposed to “be obedient” and “help them do what God’s called them to do.” Maybe that’s true, but let me see those knees.”
…and if I didn’t see it their way, then I was treated as defective, unspiritual, out of touch, uncooperative, not in the flow, etc…
…when in fact I didn’t go the way wanted me to because I just never got an inner witness on what they were saying to me.
Sometimes I wish the real New Testament Church would stand up in a way I could recognize it by reading the New Testament. David
slw, no, you haven’t rubbed me the wrong way. I haven’t had a chance to see your posts yet.
Many of the pastors that make up my “agglomeration” are nationally known, one way or another. (Maybe that’s the problem, huh?)
This week I’ve had second thoughts about this series. There are plenty of complainers on the internet and I’m not interested in being grouped with them. On the other hand, there seems to be a lot of goosey things being claimed by ministers in the name of ministry that ought to be addressed.
Ironically, Kenneth Hagin addressed some of the same issues I’m raising in the series in his book, He Gave Gifts Unto Men. Here is a quote:
“False pastors are those in the pastoral ministry who are either not called to that office at all or who are putting themselves and their own interests before the needs of the sheep. A false pastor is also one who teaches things that hurt and divide his flock. A good shepherd would rather die than see a church split or hurt in any way. But I have known some so-called pastors, especially years ago, who caused problems in every church they pastored. They put themselves before the people.”
David, thanks for the comment.
I could do (even might do) a number of posts on your comments.
Please do.
slw,
This is a composite of some of my Church experiences over the last 20 years.
I will say I am sorry in advance if it sounds like an old Beetles song.
Can you imagine a Pastor giving advise to married couples while running around on his wife?
Can you imagine a Pastor and his wife giving marriage advise while they are secretly getting a divorce?
Can you imagine a Pastor hosting wife swapping parties?
Can you imagine a Pastor who hates helping victims of childhood molestation and abuse?
Can you imagine a Pastor who loathes having to put their hands on people to pray for them?
Can you imagine a Pastor who, not only won’t meet with any member of the congregation ever, but also told them he doesn’t even want to shake their hands?
Can you imagine a Pastor establishing relationships between congregation members in their Church to get people to do things they wouldn’t normally do, but they do them just so they can maintain their pastor choreographed friendships with others members in the Church?
Can you imagine a Pastor saying they need money for a certain thing, just to take the money but never use it for what they said they wanted it for?
Can you imagine a Pastor taking merchandise from a congregation member and refusing to return it?
Can yon imagine a Pastor who thinks that people who leave their Church are going to hell?
Can you imagine a Pastor who kicked people out of his Church for praying for the peace of Israel?
Now imagine that I have either personally experienced or seen these things with my own eyes and every one of the Pastors claimed to be Word-of-Faith. All of these instances are accounts of individual Pastors. No two incidents are the same person. Most of them were Rhema Grads’.
I have had almost no true Spiritual experiences in a Church, but have had many every where else. I usually do better when I just watch WOF TV Preachers than when I go to a brick and mortar Church. I think something is wrong with this.
Most Pastors I have met think I am only in their Church to help them fulfill their vision. My needs are by and large unimportant, neither is their ever thought given to the possibility that God may have actually given me a vision for my life.
There is much more, but that should be enough to give you some idea what my Church experiences have been like.
I love Kenneth Hagin (now with God), but I will never understand how some of these people got though his school without being identified as problem children.
One of the biggest challenges in writing my book was telling the story that needed to be told without making any reference to these people. I did manage to do it because I was determined that I wasn’t going to let their actions poison the minds of the readers against the Church. So there you have it. David
David,
That’s astounding! It probably doesn’t help at all, but as a pastor, let me say I’m sorry for what you have been put you through. I’m A/G, not WOF , but I can’t claim that none of our guys would do those kinds of things. Generally, however, our churches are congregational in polity and so there’s some means of deflating the ego of would be spirtual meglomaniacs. What to do when spiritual anointing is seen as a means of self-aggrandizement, rather than service to others?
I have been in WOF churches for many years…presently the A/G. My wife and I met and were married in the A/G…was born and raised Methodist. So what am I?! I would like to think I hold to the WOF teachings/doctrines more than others.
I have been closely associated with at least six Rhema graduate pastors, either as my pastor or my relative’s pastors and many denominational pastors through the years. I found in the denominations that pastoral care often took on a much deeper level of care, compassion and interest in the flock and less of the “come help me, support me, rally behind me, fulfill MY vision.” The nondenominational, independent churches often struggled with growth, identity, “making it” in the church world and fulfilling their “calling” to their community. By far, my “worst” experiences with pastors were the WOF…insecure, controlling, even threatening, and high turnover in membership and leadership. However, I still know of many outstanding WOF pastors who are doing a commendable job in their pastoral calling. And, neither would I trade what I have learned via the Hagins, KCM, Kenyon, Price and numerous others of that genre. I am blessed and much better off spiritually because of their efforts and sacrifice.
What I have reported here is hardly the sum of the issues I have encountered. I even had one Pastor who, in effect, told me he didn’t care for my face. I was just sitting in a chair minding my own business and he came up in front of my wife and said he didn’t like the expression on my face and I should do something about it. I was just sitting there with no expression on my face, so the only conclusion I could draw from his comment was that he didn’t like my face. Now that made getting up and going to Church really worth while. I have to laugh at some of this stuff or allow myself to become bitter, which I nearly did.
The seeming improbably of what I have experienced in some of these “churches” serves to keep the unsuspecting naive.
Like I said, I love Kenneth Hagin and have read and been extremely blessed by his books for years, which is why I find it so hard to understand how some of these guys graduated from his school.
I don’t expect Pastors to be perfect, but I do expect them to be able to set a good example and to at least make some attempt to govern their Church IAW the Word.
IMHO, There needs to be a better system of accountability.
David, Amerikan, & Peter too,
It sounds to me like humble service, rather the grandiose vision, needs to be impressed upon these fellows in their training period. I went to North Central Bible College in Minneapolis. Across the lintil of the main door was an engraving that quoted Mark 10:45, “not to be served but to serve.” The funny thing is that the building was originally a hospital and the engraving was put there by that institution. Nonetheless, it was not wasted on us, our President at that time, Don Argue, quoted it often and pressed it’s value constantly. I’d like to think many of us who walked through those doors imbibed the sentiment.
I think it’s remarkable that you guys are not shrivelled up in a fetal position, drained of useful life because of the poison of bitterness (spiritually speaking) after what you have been forced to endure. That in itself is a wonderful testimony of how God can bring his children, overcoming, through the best laid plans of mice and mice who think they’re men.
God bless you all!
“slw, no, you haven’t rubbed me the wrong way. I haven’t had a chance to see your posts yet.”
I guess I’ll have to wait until you do see them to rub you the wrong way then. ;-)
slw,
To tell you the truth, I was quire hurt and angry for several years, but I finally made up my mind that the actions of others are not going to determine my future. I decided to act like what I am, a priest of the New Covenant. I entered into God’s throne room of grace, just as Jesus, Stephen and Paul did, to minister to the needs of these unfortunate souls by asking God not to lay their sins to their charge . It was just that simple. David
I remind you all, that not all who came through Rhema are as we described…they reached their high calling. Some entered Rhema with tremendous “needs” themselves. Much like the psychologist/psychiatrist who enters the field to secretly “resolve their own problems, weaknesses and shortcomings.” The question is, were they really called to the office of the pastor?
Much like, David above, I too, had to come to grips with what was. Believe it or not, I am quite a “laid back” individual. Takes much to really get me angry and in a resentful state. So for a number of years, I lived in tolerance of the weaknesses I saw in these men’s lives. It was humbling for me and it did teach me many lessons…how to persevere under adversity, how to overlook the wrongs of others, how to forgive, how to be faithful and not become bitter, how to seek Him in everything and wait on Him. “Calling those things that be not, as though they were.” I learned much from the examples of King David and Joseph. I would like to think I am a better person because of it and can help others in like situations.
Peter, I appreciate your from the pews series. As a (young) pastor I am challenged by the critiques of the church you draw. Saddened, but convicted and challenged. Thank you and keep it up.
Bruce, thanks so much for reading. These posts are also personally challenging for me.