Confessions of a Tithing Party Crasher
I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom; preach the Word … (2 Timothy 4.1, 2a, NASB)
verybody loves a dinner party. Smiles, good food, and good ‘ole yuckin’ everywhere. Though the boss’s wife might look like Sweeney Todd’s bawdy stepsister, all the partygoers do their best to invoke the Bard’s best even as their Crest-whitened smiles expose the sagging lines of her last cosmetic procedure. No one wants a scene or the real deal because … well … everyone is just having a good time. And good times should be had by all, shouldn’t they?
In the past two decades, the Word movement tithing party has raised its glasses to all kinds of tithing toasts: blessing activation, out of this world financial abundance, supernatural debt cancellation, Money Cometh, as the band has played on. As more and more preachers have raced to raise their glasses with toasts of new revelations of tithing scripture, the “Hear! Hears!” have roared.
Though venerated in Hollywood, it’s not a lot of fun being a party crasher. Silence swells, glasses are brought low, drunken stupors turn into headaches and those pretty girls just ain’t so pretty anymore. And what about all those toasts? Well, we’re all just havin’ fun, right? C’mon nobody meant any harm. As long as we all love the Lord, what’s the big deal anyway?
For the past two decades, the Word camp of the Body of Christ has increasingly upped the volume of its tithing toasts, but each successive hooray has echoed yet another step away from the Pauline Revelation. Through the years, I’ve sat way in the back while the tithing party has gone all through its ecstatical waves. Frankly, it’s easier just to nod your head when the partygoers look at you than get out of your seat and say something. But then, out of the blue, comes that Hollywood moment where you either open you mouth or you go home forever the loser.
That moment kerplunked in my heart last week. No more sitting as the perpetual petulant kid in back. No more whispering to my geeky Word friends in the dark. It was time to crash or go home. So I got up, picked up a fork, pinged it against one of the strewn toast glasses, cleared my throat, and announced, “This party is over,” by declaring, “Tithing is unsupported by and even antithetical to the New Testament.” Even as everyone took a step back (“Egad!! And he’s supposed to be a Word preacher?!?”), it was great (you wish then you had these moments all the time).
As the Lord would have it (He does this all the time with me), only after I outed myself to the Word camp did my local Word church raise its own glass say, “Hey, let’s get this party started!” This past Sunday my church had a “tithing service” to keep the tithe alive. Below are some of the local toasts and some short, off-the-cuff repartees.
How do we walk in supernatural abundance?
The party answer to that question, of course, is tithing - money going out so blessing can be coming in. But how is that reconciled with Ephesians 3.20?
Now to Him who is able to do far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think, according to the power that works within us (NASB, emphasis supplied)
Also popping the party balloon is the fact that there is not one instance of anyone in the Book of Acts tithing to walk in supernatural abundance (sowing to the Spirit is an entirely different thing altogether).
God will open up the windows of heaven.
This is a quotation in Malachi which begins by saying, “the oracle of the word of the Lord to Israel through Malachi.” (Malachi 1.1) We, as the Body of Christ, are not natural Jews. In the Old Testament, God stated that He would open the windows of heaven because He could not empower them from within for they were not born-again.
The first thing you have to do to get back to God is to tithe.
Frankly, there is nothing even close to this statement in the New Testament (or even in the OT for that matter). In Romans we see:
through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God. (Romans 5.2, NASB)
We get into this grace, the hope of the glory of God (the born-again experience), through our faith, not by tithing. The New Testament is all about giving as an expression of thankgiving and not living to please yourself (because He did not live to please Himself).
Tithing is a divine principle.
This comes from Abraham and Melchizedek. I’ll get into it in the podcasts, but Numbers 31 shows us that tithing isn’t a “divine principle” at all. In that chapter, Israel won a battle and God instructed Moses how to divide the booty of war a certain way. God did not say, “Have them tithe on the booty.”
You must bring the right amount to God.
This was the last part of the sermon and it concentrated on whether one should tithe on “gross income” or “net income.” If this isn’t a legalistic way of following the Lord I really don’t know what is (per the above, God did not say, “Have them tithe on the gross revenues of the booty.”).
You must bring the right amount to the right place.
This had to do with “bringing the whole tithe into the storehouse” - meaning, according to my pastor, the local church. Consequently (again, according to my pastor’s sermon), one cannot tithe to national ministries. It appears that no one has ever told the national ministers this. Ask any national minister and he’ll tell you in about one nanosecond that you certainly can tithe to him (he’s one of the five-fold ministers, you know). This kind of bantering back and forth between ministers just goes to show how little, if any (read: none), NT scriptural support there is for tithing. It’s a good thing that Jesus’s statement, “You must be born-again” isn’t debated as much as this is, isn’t it?
The Tithing Card
This card was handed out at the end of the service. Where my pastor gets the idea that he can or may monitor my “tithing commitment,” I don’t know. If I did fill out the card (I didn’t), and failed to execute, what then? Does that curse that he referred to in Malachi fall on the whole church or just on me? I’m not sure if I could get my tithe back if I am totally not satisfied though the card says, “Guarantee” (that actually could have some legal ramifications, believe it or not).
At the end of the service, I leaned over to my wife and said, “See, that is one of the problems with this NT tithing business; there was not a single mention of Jesus Christ or what He did to accomplish redemption during the whole service.”
She quipped back, “Didn’t Jesus speak of just two commandments? Did He just miss it or what?”
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Peter,
I slip away for a couple of weeks and you go and step into it big time! ;-)
I didn’t listen to the podcast, but did read the comment thread and I have read the tithing series you published back in 2006. You are correct in saying that tithing practiced legally (i.e. in consideration for blessing) is not a NT construct. Not only is it mercenary and manipulative (by both the preachers who preach such and those who practice it in order to get God to say “uncle”), it is legalistic and destructive to the gospel of grace. For a person to tithe a la the OT in order to activate blessing or to secure their stream of financial blessing obligates them to live by the whole code. In that case they have become alienated from grace and Christ is of no use to them (see Galatians 5:2-4). We cannot treat sin by the principle of grace, and treat money by the principle of law. New wine needs new wineskins. If one, in the innocence of faith, seeks to be a giver (like God), the pattern of the OT can be helpful in developing his or her purpose (2 Corinthians 9:6-8), but it can never be imposed as an obligation.
I’ve got a feeling you’ll be facing a firestorm over this, but I appreciate your willingness to call them as you see them, and let the chips fall where they may. God bless.
slw, thanks for the comment.
Did you expect anything less? With this tithing series and the upcoming ascension verses, I may be burned in effigy by all the different camps in the Body of Christ.
Peter, would you expect anything less…”burned in effigy?” May I start? :-)
Unless your local church scenario is hypothetical, why would you bother with such an errant pastor and church given your strong convictions on tithing and what you call, “much error in the church?” Your polarizing views do not seem to complement the present state of your church affairs.
We think nothing of forking over 20…30% of our income to the government….we do get some bang for our buck…not nearly as much as we often think we should. It is frequently misused and misappropriated, tho have not seen any revolutions, yet. But when asked or “encouraged” or taught to give a mere 10% to the local church via tithing, heels dig in, the sphincters get tight and anoxia precipitates to catatonia evoking shrieks of “heresy.” Never mind what we go to the house of God to get, take, learn, receive, produce, become, enjoy…all to become more like Christ in thought, word and deed.
Peter, maybe I should just quit trying. :-) Comment #2984 just went off the screen….
I see the tithe in the NT church as being two-fold: (a) the practical level, i.e., taking care of the house of God and blessing the people whose life work is to share the Gospel, and (b) the spiritual principle of first fruits and letting God get first dibs on the income we make only at His discretion. When we horde and regard our money as our own and give only when we think it’s convenient, we are robbing God of the place of honor He deserves and we are robbing ourselves of having to step out in faith and do something extraordinary.
Perhaps there are excesses, and perhaps there are legalistic ramifications to the tithe, and I’ll be happy to grant you that. But I think it’s foolish to throw the baby out with the bath water. Committing to giving a regular portion to your local church and being generous with what you earn is what builds character and faith, and I absolutely believe God blesses His people when they give because I’ve seen it happen in my life and in many other people’s lives.
Can I point to one verse or one precept in the NT and claim victory? No, nor would I want to. There are very few “commandments” in the NT in general, because we are to be led by the Spirit and not by legalism. But if the Spirit leads us to be a generous people, I think that’s sound doctrine.
And there’s my 2c for the day. :)
AmeriKan, thanks for the comment.
Comparing government taxation and NT giving is apples and oranges. It is not a matter of percentages (people can give well over 10%), but of scriptural means meeting scriptural ends. The Pauline Revelation is all about our freedom in Christ and NT tithing is not only antithetical to the truth of “in Him;” it is low-realm.
Why bother with such an errant pastor? Good question. As I’ve written in the past, the Word movement is dead-on with the doctrinal goods, but the movement (if we could call it that) has steered off into kitschy interpretations of scripture that are far and away different from orthodoxy. If we could find a Word church in the area that didn’t have a shallow pulpit (see Phil Cook’s “Branding Faith”), we’d make a mad dash for it.
Apples and oranges? I think it is closer to a delicious apple vs a jonathan apple….the taste and smell is very close. The idea of “percentages,” gets our attention and makes us think about the true reality of where our money goes each month. “Freedom in Christ,” is just that…the law of liberty that allows us to go beyond the 10%.
Even with all of the “NT in Him’s,” we, as believers, live on a daily basis well below what Jesus wants us to truely have because our beliefs are “low-realm.”
Meant to say, “our believing is ‘low-realm.’ ”
Peter, I’m not sure if people are getting the point here. It’s not about not giving to our local church, the work of God, missions, teaching ministries, etc. The NT is very clear that we should give generously. Even sacrificially at times. It is very clear that if we are being ministered to spiritually, it is our duty to support those ministers with our money. If we see a need, and we have the means to meet that need, it is the right thing to do to make sure that need is met. It’s not about give or not give. We are to all do our part to make sure the needs of the church and ministries that minster to us are met. Generous, Spirit led giving is all through the NT. Tithing is not. In fact, the way tithing is taught from pulpits today is not really in line with OT tithing, from what I have studied out. But, that’s another topic. Let’s give scripturally, not through religious tradition that often times causes people either to be in pride or condemnation.
I think there are valid points on both sides of the tithing issue. What I find more interesting is that, if, “generous, Spirit-led giving is all through the NT,” why do some get so upset over a nominal 10%? Could it be the, “we are to all do our part,” is much lower than it should be, as in a “token dollar” in the offering plate? After being on the tithing end for 36 years, I still find those who make the most noise about tithing, give the least, if any, always thinking some preacher or church is trying to “milk them dry.” The logical answer to that is…don’t tithe or give because you are giving to an errant cause…which is usually what happens. And you will not have to worry about being in “disobedience” because what is there to “disobey,” if you don’t believe tithing is scriptural. The tithers end up supporting the greater part of the church. The bottom line…I have become a very blessed man in my heart and life. Deciding not to tithe (and “have more”, like one contributor wrote) for me, would be like going back to Egypt. Why stop doing a good thing that has only brought increase to my life and those around me?
Peter et al,
I tithe faithfully. I have since hearing a sermon on the subject early in my walk with Christ. It was a standard A/G approach to the subject based on Malachi. Even though I have long since come to the conclusion that what I was taught was unscriptural and therefore in error doctrinely, I continue to tithe.
Why? I do believe the NT standard is generosity. With Christ in us we get to experience what it’s like living on his level — in this case, being generous like he is. We give, not to get something out of him, but because we get to be like him, and it’s life itself to be so. Tithing is just a practical means for me, in my own mind, of making sure I’m doing something reasonable for the local church, and I begrudge it not in the least.
As for proportions, even under the OT, 10% was not the end all and be all of giving. The tithe was only the portion warehoused for the poor and the priests. There were alms, thank, sin, and fellowship offerings, first fruits (not the same as tithing, incidentally) and volitional giving besides. The demands of the OT far exceeded 10%, and were obligations which had to be followed in order to be righteous.
One of my Bible college professors once asked our class why would anyone expect the NT standard to be less, when it’s a better covenant with better blessings? I’ don’t agree with covenantal theology, so the argument doesn’t weigh much with me, but I do see some logic in it. Saying that tithing is not a NT construct should not be taken to mean we “get” to give less and keep more. What is means is that tithing should not be seen as a means to get a spiritual “Dewey button” from the Lord. God doesn’t relate to us at arms length in a contractual arrangement. He lives within us, letting us experience life as he does. NT giving comes out of that reality (his nature in us), and rests upon reckoning on his power over all things. Therefore, a NT saint lets go of it all, hilariously, as a result.
The big issue here, ISTM, is the obligatory aspect of current tithing teaching that claims one must work to earn God’s favor financially. Pragmatic American Christians, shown such a bottom line, tithe to insure their financial happiness. Where does that have any place in the NT?
In my home, we give close to 20%, and are increasing that amount every year.
It’s not about giving or not giving. I know some argue tithing because they don’t want to give anything, but I don’t believe that is the case on this web-site.
slw, I like much of what you are saying.
Your continued tithing, inspite of your belief that it is doctrinal error and is unscriptural, is much like Peter’s continued association in a WOF church that “teaches error.” The two do not jive.
When we are talking about giving, whether tithing, given to hospitality or loving people, it is the principle of sowing and reaping. Hence, they all come under the law of reciprocity. In my giving, whether monetarily or otherwise, yes, I can expect a return on what I give. Even my brother, the farmer/rancher, knows that if he plants wheat, he will get a return on his wheat…and it is usually much more than he planted.
I think your Bible college professor had more sense than you give him credit for and perhaps, wisdom, too.
Amerikan,
If everyone left their church because, from their perspective, they discerned some doctrinal error taught from the pulpit, virtually every church would be empty overnight. I don’t understand why you find it incongruous that Peter would continue to attend a church that he felt taught error concerning tithing. There are things serious enough to leave a church over, tithing wouldn’t be one in my judgment. However, Peter is more than able to speak for himself and does not need my defense.
As for me, I continue to tithe as part of my purposed giving. In contemplating what to give, I found tithing was a trustworthy biblical pattern for expressing faith in God. It’s not all I give, but it is the core. I don’t do so to open up the windows of heaven or to earn a stream of return or because if I didn’t, I’d be robbing God. I give because I trust God as my provider, therefore I can afford to. To say God is my provider and not give would be to lie. To give something that did not cost me or put me into the realm of having to trust God to come through, would be to have little faith indeed. I do believe God is for me, and knows my need before I ask, and I do believe that he is able to make all grace abound to me, so I tithe to the church and give on top of that. That puts me in no position to demand service or to expect consideration, it just lets me look God in the eye and know the wonder of what it is to be generous like him. If strings are attached to our giving, we may be trying to purchase something, but we haven’t given at all.
AmeriKan,
On Kenneth Copeland’s website, he has a press release about the Grassley investigation and he writes that “the one thing all six of the churches who received a letter have in common is that we all preach the Word of Faith message.” Similar to my post on CRI’s Word of Faith article, if you put the six ministries side-by-side, there would be a wide disparity in teachings.
In the late 1980s, many WOF critics disparaged E.W. Kenyon’s faith teachings based on his short attendance at a “New Thought” school (the New Thought connection was quite dubious). The logic was that since he was “exposed” to New Thought he could never come to the place where he would not be influenced in his insight into the Word. Humbug to that. Though I attend a Word church, I certainly don’t leave my brain with the greeter.
Holy Smokes! Nice to see you’re stirring up Peter. I also haven’t checked in for awhile. I must admit in this small Southern town we finally found a church home in a vibrant growing church whose roots are more (gasp) Baptist than Charismatic. The offering plate is not even passed, but we drop our giving into the box at the back of the lovely brand new sanctuary. Do I miss some WOF teaching? Sure, but remarkably, when we fellowship with those who love the Word, doors open to their hungry hearts. Maybe its because of how much we love their sweetness and authenticity.
Peter and slw, I have to respect a person’s reasons and convictions for staying in a particular local church. Though, sometimes it is counterproductive to our/your cause. As in my case, it profited me little to stay in the Methodist church because of what I perceived as error when it came to the literal interpretation of scripture and even such things as salvation…what exactly that meant. And for many within that denomination, they have seen extreme declines in numbers just for the very reasons I mentioned. My convictions were different for leaving the A/G, once I had heard the WOF message. Just from your perspective and many posts, Peter, your perceived frustrations seem to overshadow some of your more classic writings/essays. I don’t mean that in a negative way but I see your gifting, especially in your Descent series, Healing series and several others.
“I give because I trust God as my provider, therefore I can afford to. ” I may not understand exactly what you are saying here. But for me, I give because I trust God as my provider, therefore I “cannot afford not to.” Which is based on what I believe is the two-fold purpose of tithing…1) To meet the needs of the local church and further the spread of the Gospel and 2) It insures a return on what I give to supply my basic needs and seed to continue the cycle of sowing and reaping. Because of 2 Cor. 9:6-13, I can expect God to make good on His promises and I can give in faith knowing that He will supply according to how much I give….”multiply your seed sown and increase the fruits of your righteousness.” The conditions are a “cheerful giver, not grudgingly, or of necessity but as he purposes in his heart.”
Peter has mentioned Kenneth Hagin’s book, the Midas Touch, so I think it would be appropriate to quote some of it here. It is a book primarily addressing the issue of money in a believer’s life, as well as in the local church. I guess one could call it a correctional/or admonishing book where error has occurred. Since Kenneth Hagin is considered the foremost leader of the Faith movement, this places Hagin in a position of authority to bring correction to those within the movement.
Hagin’s, The Midas Touch, 2000.
“Although the majority of Biblical references to the tithe are clearly part of the Old Covenant, the fact of the matter is that tithing was not introduced under the Law. It was merely regulated under the Law. Tithing originated as an act of faith, and faith transcends both the Old and New Covenants! And ‘by faith’ is how we should tithe today — not as an act of legalism, but as an act of faith.
Genesis 14 tells us how Abram paid tithes to Melchizedek, king of Salem and a priest of the Most High God, 400 years before the time of Moses and the Law. Obviously, he did not pay tithes by legalistic requirement because he lived before the Law. Isaac and Jacob also lived before the Law and paid tithes (Gen. 18:19, 20; 28:22).
By faith, Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek, the priest of the Most High God, who was a type of Christ. We see this in the Book of Hebrews, which also tells us that, “…Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.” Heb. 7:22 NIV.
Galatians chapter 3 makes some crucially important statements.
‘But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of
God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And
the law is not of faith: but The man that doeth them
shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse
of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written
Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the
blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through
Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the
Spirit through faith.’ Galatians 3:11-14
So should we pay tithes today? Absolutely! But we pay them like Abraham paid them…not by the Law, but by faith. And besides that, if the people of God paid ten percent before the Law and ten percent under the Law, should we, who live by grace, be doing any less when we have a better covenant?
Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek, the priest of the Most High God, who was a type of Christ. And he received the blessing, which was threefold…spiritual, physical, and material or financial. Because we are redeemed from the curse of the Law by the sacrifice of Christ, we have received the blessing of Abraham…spiritually, physically, and financially. We then by faith follow the example of Abraham in paying tithes. We pay our tithes unto Christ!
I believe if every Christian would be faithful in tithing and giving, there would be more than enough funds for the Church to carry out its mission in the world. Researchers have found that amazingly few born-again Americans tithe regularly, and a surprisingly large number give nothing! Imagine what could be accomplished if all Christians were faithful in their tithing and giving.
In my more than 65 years of ministry, I’ve heard thousands of testimonies from people who have practiced God’s biblical plan of returning a tenth of their income to Him through the local church. A great many of them, in the beginning, were not sure how they could get by on the remaining 90% of their income when they had been barely making it beforehand. But somehow they did. Oh, it wasn’t always easy. It required patience, determination, faith and some time. But if they persisted, the promised blessings came. Sometimes they noticed that God had ‘rebuked the devourer’ in their lives…the car or the appliances did not break down as often or the kids weren’t sick as much, resulting in fewer medical bills. If they worked in construction or as farmers, bad weather didn’t keep them off the job. Then many times, extra income would come from totally unexpected sources. Perhaps they would get a raise, some overtime hours, or maybe even a bonus! Others reported that they got an insurance settlement, collected on old debt or received an inheritance.
The bottom line was that when they paid their tithes, they had more financially and did better. And most people were also blessed spiritually with a closer walk with God, physically with better health, and mentally and emotionally with a greater sense of joy and well-being. The Bible says, “The blessing of the Lord, it maketh rich, and he addeth no sorrow with it.’ (Prov. 10:22) ”
This sounds like the history of my 36 years of tithing. It has proven out in my own life. To tithe and “not believe it is for the church,” today, is hard for me to comprehend. It does not even make good sense. That is like the man who said he gave 2,200K for Kenneth Copeland’s jet and he wanted the money back because the plane was being “used for pleasure,” yet, on his website was an anathema of anti-WOF-prosperity rhetoric in explicit detail. I don’t believe for one minute the man was being honest in the amount “he said he donated.” For one to give 20% of his income to his local church plus offerings…more power to that brother, PTL! For me to give the tithe and above of my income to my local church, you bet I’m going to know in my heart if it is Biblical and something the Lord is telling me to do.
Amerikan,
“For me to give the tithe and above of my income to my local church, you bet I’m going to know in my heart if it is Biblical and something the Lord is telling me to do.”
That quote, even more than all else you have said, makes me suspect that your approach to tithing is legalistic, despite all that you have said about faith. If one tithes in order to do what he or she has been told, with the expectation that his or her action will inevitably incite a reward from God, that action is legalistic. It is not founded upon partnership or friendship with God, but upon an arms-length contract, the benefit a consideration of action taken. I couldn’t come up with a better illustration of legalism if I tried! The NT says we have not because we ask not, not because we haven’t fulfilled our quota of giving.
Who told Abraham to tithe? No one did. It was his response, unsolicited from God or anyone else, as far as we can tell. Whereas it does reflect some measure of faith to do what we are told by God, realizing he will come through with his end of the bargain, that it not why Abraham tithed, and neither should we. God is not a stranger to us, certainly not a man that he should lie, that we have to deal with him on the basis of a binding contract. And yet, much of what I’ve seen practiced as and in the name of tithing is precisely that, and worse, it’s driven by a fleshly desire to guarantee riches. That’s not only legalistic, it’s mercenary.
slw, money is what drives the world. Without money, the Gospel cannot be spread…it is a prolific subject in the Bible. None of us can get away from this issue. It is probably one of the most sensitive issues in the world arena and one of the most sensitive issues that the church has to deal with. On any of these blog sites, when the subject of money, tithing, poverty, or prosperity is mentioned, the posts go way up.
Some churches avoid the subject of finances like the plague and many struggle from the financial perspective.
For me, I handle the money issue just like I do salvation because I believe, contrary to Peter, that salvation includes body, soul and spirit because of all that Jesus accomplished on the cross. He said, “I came that you might have life and have it more abundantly.” Not only does that include the new birth but also my healing and the fact that God wants to bless me in my home, my job and my finances. It is an exciting and glorious issue and for me it is basic Christianity 101 and a “nobrainer.” I would only hope from this dialogue that those inquiring and perhaps questioning readers might be challenged to pursue the subject in the scriptures and find out for themselves what the Lord wants them to do in the realm of tithing and giving. “Whom the Spirit sets free is free, indeed.” And when we are free, the “sky is the limit” in the kingdom of God.
AmeriKan, I am not sure what you mean by “contrary to Peter.”
Peter, in your podcast you talk about Eph. 1:3 …who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings. But in reality we do not see all are healed nor do we see where all are living blessed in their finances. Why? All that Jesus’ shed blood brought us in the atonement includes not only salvation but also healing and the blessings of the abundant life. One reason all are not healed is because they have not appropriated their healing by receiving it by faith. Just as Jesus was unable to do many miracles of healing in Nazareth because of unbelief. Similarly, there are reasons all are not living in greater financial blessing. In his The Midas Touch, Kenneth Hagin shows how we have been redeemed from the curse of the Law….from poverty, sickness and spiritual death. Hagin also explains how tithing brings the promised blessings of God. (Prov. 10:22)
“Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: that THE BLESSING of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Chirst; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit THROUGH FAITH.” Gal 3:13-14.
Quoting Hagin. “At calvary, Christ took on sickness to provide us health. He was made sin so we could be made the righteousness of God. He was made a curse so we could receive the blessing.”
“Let’s look again at 2 Cor 8:9. ‘For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became POOR, that ye through his POVERTY might be RICH.’ ”
“We see that by His sacrifice on the Cross, Jesus took our poverty to provide us the riches of His grace. He became poor that we might be rich, which means abundant provision!”
“When did Jesus take on sin, sickness, the curse and poverty? On the Cross! He did this so we could receive health, righteousness, blessing and prosperity. He took the punishment that belonged to us so that we could receive the blessings that belong to Him.”
“The reason I am so certain this is what the scriptures are saying is because the Gospels, when properly examined and rightly divided, do not portray Jesus as a poverty-stricken individual. On the contrary, Jesus is seen as a Man whose needs were met and who was regularly involved in meeting the needs of others.”
Tithing and giving are the key to appropriating financial blessings. Do we give to get? No. I believe that motive is misplaced. It is truely a heart issue, though we must have a clear understanding of what the scriptures say about what God promises when we tithe and when we give…financial prosperity. The same goes for healing. When I believe and act on, “By whose stripes, we are healed,” then by faith, based upon what God’s word says, then I am healed and can expect and believe for the manifestation of that healing.
AmeriKan,
Thanks for the response, but “tithing and giving are key to appropriating financial blessings” is not found in the NT. In Corinthians giving is spoken in the context of sowing to the Spirit and not the flesh. As with salvation, Ephesians 1.3 is all about believing (faith).
Galatians 3, when you read the chapter, speaks of the blessing of Abraham being the reborn human spirit, the one which is the “spirit of Christ.”
2 Corinthians 8.9 is speaking about Jesus becoming poor spiritually so that we may become rich spiritually (identification - in that sense the guys who say that Jesus didn’t become sin have it wrong and the guys who say that it is speaking of material abundance have it wrong).
As I preached in the podcast (and the upcoming podcasts), the NT does not speak of tithing because it is irrelevant to the New Covenant. That is not to say that God doesn’t materially bless us, but it is to say that tithing or giving to appropriate anything falls into slw’s analysis of legalistic works (which is antithetical to the NT). Giving is (and should be) all about the fruit of the spirit. Consequently, the word “tithe” which connotes a dutiful obligation shouldn’t find its way into NT preaching.
Peter, I guess that is where we differ. I think Hagin clearly makes a valid connection between the “blessing of Abraham” coming “on the Gentiles.” That being …part of the curse of the law was poverty, as well as sickness and death. Hagin’s book, Redeemed From the Curse of Poverty, Sickness and Spiritual Death, deals with this subject.
Tithing in the NT? I will quote Hagin from The Midas touch. “Two of the Gospels, Matthew and Luke, report the only recorded incident of Jesus saying anything about it. But in this instance, Jesus clearly affirmed His belief in the practice of tithing:
‘Yes, woe upon you, Pharisees, and you other religious leaders…hypocrites! For you tithe down to the last mint leaf in your garden, but ignore the important things…justice and mercy and faith. Yes, you should tithe, but you shouldn’t leave the more important things undone.’ Matt. 23:23
“Jesus upbraided the hypocritical religious leaders of His day who ignored vitally important parts of the Law such as justice, mercy, and faith, while meticulously paying the tithe they owed down to the last leaf in their garden. He was saying that giving money doen’t take the place of living right. God is not as interested in a person’s money as He is in his heart. But Jesus did say that a person whould tithe.”
“We, then, by faith follow the example of Abraham in paying tithes. We pay our tithes unto Chirst! The Bible says in Ephesians that when God raised Jesus from the dead, He gave Him to be the Head over all things to the church, which is His Body (Eph.1:22,23). So when we pay tithes to Christ, the Head, they flow to His Body, the Church. Through the church, we have the great privilege of giving to Jesus to do His will and work.”
In 2 Cor. 9, I don’t see how you can get around the fact that it is distinctly dealing with the issue of money.
I like Hagin’s wisdom in the approach to balance.
“It has been my experience that with virtually every Biblical subject, there is a main road of truth with a ditch of error on either side of the road. The Church has not always been a very good driver, often having great difficulty staying in the middle of the road. Just about anywhere you go on the Bible pathway, you will find people off in the ditch on one side of the road or the other.”
“Throughout the history of the Church, there have been extreme applications of almost every basic truth or doctrine, including issues such as baptism, resurrection, the Trinity, ministry gifts, divine healing and the walk of faith. The topic of money and prosperity is no exception. There are those in the ditch on one side of the road who teach that Jesus lived in abject poverty, that money is evil, and that Biblical prosperity has nothing at all to do with material things. And in the other ditch, there are people who are preaching that getting rich is the main focus of faith, that God’s main concern is your material well-being and that money is the true measure of spirituality. Where is the truth? It is found far away from both exrtemes on much higher ground.”
The Midas Touch, A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity, Kenneth E. Hagin, Faith Library Publications, 2000.
AmeriKan,
Tithing is irrelevant to Galatians 3.13 and its ramifications, including redemption from the curse of poverty. Second, when Jesus spoke of tithing it concerned the Pharisees who were under the law and who were supposed to tithe (that is why we don’t see tithing in the New Testament epistles except as a frame of reference in Hebrews).
In 2 Corinthians 8 and 9, Paul deals with money, but as he does elsewhere, he draws on a spiritual truth in contextualizing his subject matter, e.g., Romans 15. To hold that 2 Corinthians 8.9 is speaking of Jesus becoming materially poor so that we could become materially rich is to miss the depth of the truth revealed by Paul.
Preaching that tithing is not New Testament is not an extreme teaching at all. Frankly, saying that tithing adds anything to the plan of redemption and God’s work on behalf of saving mankind is (and that includes activating or triggering God’s blessings).
I suggest that you listen to the present podcast and then the rest of the podcast series of Tithing and the Gospel of Christ. As slw wrote, a Christian may decide to “tithe” as a kind of measure of giving, but giving a “tithe” just isn’t supported by the letter or spirit of the New Testament (New Covenant).
Lastly, while I have the greatest respect for Kenneth Hagin and his ministry (I’ve learned quite a lot from him), everything still must pass the muster of the text. As Jesus told him in a vision, he didn’t know everything.
In Jesus’ admonishment to the Pharisees, even though they lived under the law, He said they should be living in justice, mercy and grace. I don’t believe Jesus made a distinction between the old covenant and the new covenant in addressing the issue.
Peter, on your last statement/sentence….looks like none of us do (know everything). And, one day, in time, we will all know the whole truth.
Here it is.
Well, first of all, here is where many people are missing it concerning tithing. Number one. Stop reasoning it, the anointing teaches all things concerning the scriptures. I doubt you are a true blogger, if you are then allow this comment to be displayed and don’t feel inferior by it.
In Corinthians it states that those who minsiter about the altart partake with the altar” then it says in context “Even so”…”Even so (in the same manner) those those who preach are to make a living off of the gospel”. In context, this means receiving tithes and offerings. Old testament practice under the Levitical Law, of giving the tithe and offering, becomes a type for the new testament believer to follow.
The same kind of type/pattern we use with regards to cautiously entering into the Holy of Holies, in the sense that we use it, apply it to people who shouldn’t enter into a wrong 5-fold office through the flesh. Possibly like the way modern bloggers are entering into a teaching office to teach on tithing, even though they are not really called to that office, or they are entering into a correct office, but not correctly entering it.
The types in the Old Testament may be applied, not in a legalistic way, but under grace. All scripture… is for instruction, correction..
Those who don’t beleive in “tithing”, calling it a practice under the law, restricting it to the Levitical Law, are foolishly forgetting, it began with Abraham, then Jacob tithed, before the Law.
Then the Clencher: Jesus in Heaven according to Hebrews receives (present tense, maybe present continuous) the “tithe”. It means one tenth.
Laugh as you may, you probably don’t have the audacity to post this to your blog. A true blogger welcomes disagreement.
So Abraham, Jacob, Men and Jesus (Hebrews 7), tithe in such a way that it is not necessarily an Old Covenant practice. Hebrews 7 shows it is practiced after the law. So does the Corinthians verse I quoted.
To laugh at possible judgment and being cursed if one does not tithe, because we are not under the curse according to Galatians, shows that you do not treat holy matters as you should.
In Corinthians, it states that christians received judgement from God, including death and sickness (curses). Why did they receive that if Christ had it at the cross? Unbelief as evidenced by faith (which works by love), that did not have love, they were just simply neglecting a few members in the Body, and not correctly discerning the Lord’s Body (some of the christians there).
If judgement came to them, and curses from the Law, after the Law and under the New Testament, can a believer be cursed with a curse for not supporting his/her minsters in their local congregations? The answer is YES. Including prophets, apostles, and any age in an active true 5-fold minsitry. They deserve to receive a tithe. And Nehemiah shows that 5-fold minsiters are to tithe from their tithes received. “Tithe of the tithes”. In love willingly, not as a good work, but as the sum of the law, new testament law, which is to LOVE ONE ANOTHER.
Now you have an anointing from the Holy One, learn to be taught by it. I am positng this on the other blogs about tithing too.
Balance too. By all means I believe it disgusts our heavenly Father when ministers live in MILLION DOLLAR homes and fly Million dollar jets for vacation purposes, WHILE there is even one poor christian amongst their flock. Faith without works, greed, and IN THE FLESH, THEY CERTAINLY ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN A HIRELING WHO CARES NOT FOR THE (POOR) SHEEP.
It disgusts me when they live like that, and members in their flock never truely prosper. I’d say it is judgement day.
And the old testament pattern of tithing for the new testament tithing (Hebrew 7), I believe and know, for God is a Spirit and I have an unction that I took much time to listen to concerning this truth, through the inner witness, in agreement with scriptures, this pattern, like many old testament types under the law, have a fulfilment under grace, the same way Jesus fulfilled the type of the sacrificial lamb.
Tithes are to be received by all of the 5-fold minsitries in a local church, even young youth pastors etc., not just the worshipper of Mammon the head pastor.
Then the tithe they receive is to be tithed to other ministers outiside of their church.
I never followed Swaggart, Bakars, Parsley, Hinn.
The old testament law was summed up in love one another and God…If we neglect that by not giving tithes in agreement with New Testament scripture (Cor:9 , Hebrews 7)…and neglect giving a tithe and offering to true ministers in a local church, EVEN UNDER GRACE, judgment may come, CURSED WITH A CURSE JUDGEMENT, like it dead on Corinthians during the Lord’s supper, for not discerning the Lord’s Body.
If we discern the 5-fold minsters as the Lord’s workers, surely we will make sure they receive payment from God, through our giving tithes and offerings to them.