Peter SmytheA Different Kind of Word Preacher

13 comments...What do you think?

1. Posted by Larry 2nd March, 2008 at 1:32 pm

   Peter - You are making some good points. Question, Why has this type of teaching not been more widely accepted or taught among the body of Christ? It would seem to me that others would have picked up on this view of tithing, especially in the “Word of Faith” circles. I’m looking forward to more on this subject.

   Also please clarify for me the origin of the term “Word of Faith” - who first coined this phrase? Or who first referred to themself as a “Word of Faith” preacher? Was it Hagin? Or is the term “Word of Faith” just a identifying term of some doctrinal position or teaching? Thanks for any help concerning this.

2. Posted by Peter Smythe 2nd March, 2008 at 4:42 pm

   Larry,

   Thanks for the comment. I’m not sure why it hasn’t been more widely taught though the WOF preachers really should be its standard-bearers.

   I believe (I may be mistaken) that “Word of Faith” was first used by critics of the WOF movement. It is the name of Hagin’s monthly newsletter and I believe that the critics just picked it up to give his teachings a moniker. Later on, Hagin was criticized for being called the “Father” of the Faith Movement (the critics point to Kenyon) though he didn’t like the term.

   The trouble now is that “Word of Faith” doesn’t necessarily describe the basic doctrines set forth by Kenyon, Hagin, or others. It is now used as a grab bag term to describe virtually any preacher that is charismatic and non-denominational.

3. Posted by Larry 3rd March, 2008 at 9:40 am

   Thanks for the info.

   Anytime someone receives a revelation on truth people have a tendency to circle the wagons in defence of the traditional way of thinking. I am convinced that the Holy Spirit is still guiding us into truth. I do not believe that any new truth will be beyond the scriptures but I do think that the Holy Spirit will open to us the “rest of the story” as some well known person likes to say. I enjoy your insights and the fact that you use a good amount of scripture. As Keith Moore likes to say, “for something to be scriptural you must have scripture”. Keep writing and postcasting we are listening.

4. Posted by DLE 4th March, 2008 at 8:23 am

   Peter,

   Thanks for the link to my post. I made a note of your trackback on my blog so my readers can hear your podcast.

   I enjoyed the podcast. I appreciate that you took things back before the Law by discussing Abraham and Melchizedek in the detail that you did. (Glad to see that we’re both on the same page by referencing Galatians and Hebrews, too.)

   I’m glad to hear other charismatics going back to Scripture to point out some of the problems with certain points of teaching in charismatic churches today. We charismatics need that kind of willingness to learn and be corrected. Thanks.

5. Posted by Peter Smythe 4th March, 2008 at 8:44 am

   Dan, thanks so much for listening. It was a nice surprise to see your posts on tithing occurring at the same time and that we’re on the same page.

6. Posted by David DeFrees 12th March, 2008 at 1:21 am

   I did listen to both of your podcasts and agree that tithing, even though existing before the law, was incorporated into the law that Jesus fulfilled. I would like to make few points and ask a couple of questions, if I may?

   1) The question I always ask concerning Malachi 3:11 is, “Why do you need God to rebuke the devourer for Christians since, as a new Covenant believer, we can rebuke the devourer in the name of Jesus?” It doesn’t take the name of Jesus and the tithe to rebuke the devourer under the New Covenant.

   Malachi 3:11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.

   2) I do not see where we are instructed to tithe in the NT. I do see that every man should give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loves a cheerful giver.

   2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

   I believe that giving is an issue of the heart and it is what we purpose in our heart when we give which determines God’s response.

   Consider the following scripture.

   Luke 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

   I believe that the reason that some tithers succeed, where other tithers don’t, isn’t because God is honoring the law regarding their tithe, but rather God is responding to purpose in the heart of the giver.

   This is why people who have enjoyed apparent success in tithing dig their heels in when someone examines tithing from a scriptural point of view. They believe they are right because they see what they think is the result of their tithe, but what they are really seeing is their Heavenly Father’s response to reason they gave.

   It is the condition of the heart (soul), not the law, by which Christians prosper, whether they are tithers or not.

   3) I believe that the most important thing is that we obey God in our giving, for how can we go wrong if we do this?

   Question:

   1) When it comes to how much we give, do you believe that we 10% might be used as an example of amount where our giving is to begin?

   2) Your first two podcasts were excellent, but could you go into the spiritual and practical mechanics of giving a bit more in you next episode. One of the things that the people who promote tithing offer is that tithing is the fundamental mechanism by which we can get our need met. So, for those of us who don’t believe tithing is part of the New Covenant, how does giving tie into our getting our need met? Is Luke 6:38 applicable confession of faith in this instance?

   Luke 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

   Thanks for your time.

   David

   P.S. Getting a little late here. I hope this reads rigth in the morning.

7. Posted by Peter Smythe 12th March, 2008 at 8:24 am

   David, thanks for the comment.

   I believe that you are right on track with the upcoming podcasts. The NT is all about the heart and being led by the Spirit.

   Should we use 10% to get started? The better way is to stick with what we see in scripture - every man giving as purposed in his heart. In the book of Acts, we don’t see the disciples beginning with 10%, but rather selling their own properties in order to assist those in persecution. For the man who is blessed with the gift of giving, 10% may be quite a bit less than he is able and what the Spirit may be directing him to do.

   If the Word is preached and people respond by the Spirit, we’d see more of what is written in the book of Acts that “none lacked anything.” One thing that “tithing” does is keep us at a distance - the priests are an exclusive group who have an exclusive place before God. In the NT, the Word is adamant that we are family and we respond accordingly, e.g., Agabus prophesying of a coming famine and the disciples’ financial response.

8. Posted by David DeFrees 12th March, 2008 at 2:58 pm

   Dear Peter,

   Thank you for your coments. I am going to listen to your first two podcast on tithing again and will be looking forward to your third episode. When do you think you will have it done? David

9. Posted by Peter Smythe 12th March, 2008 at 6:22 pm

   David,

   The next one should be up in the next couple of days. Thanks for listening.

10. Posted by David DeFrees 15th March, 2008 at 11:56 pm

    Peter,

    Actually I belive that the Churches fixation on tithing is limiting the financial growth, both for money to get the Word out and money to meet people’s needs.

    Acts 4:32-5:11
    32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
    33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
    34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
    35 And laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

    When today’s Church leaders start walking (not just talking) in the same power of God’s grace (power/ability) that the apostles did, then we will see the multitude giving by their faith (trust/confidence) in God’s love for them. When this happens we will see NT giving and no one will ever bring up the tithe agian. IMHO

    I don’t see this type of giving making the preachers or their flocks poorer. David

11. Posted by David DeFrees 16th March, 2008 at 12:40 am

    P.S. God will ot release this Acts 4:32-5:11 type of power as long as the Church’s fixation is on the tithe rather than the love of God. IMHO

12. Posted by David DeFrees 16th March, 2008 at 10:46 am

    P.S., P.S.
    
    Also I disagree that people shouldn’t give to get. You can’t help but get when you give something, even if is the satisfaction/pleasure of enriching someone/something you love. If you didn’t love something about giving, you wouldn’t be giving very long.

    It is actually a moot point. God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him. When you are loving God you are diligently seeking him, and when you diligently seek Him, God will reward you. God wants you to know that you will be rewarded when you diligently seek him which is why Hebrews 11:6 is in the Bible.

    Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

    I know I will get when I give because I trust God with all of my giving.

Trackbacks...

1. Shallow Pulpits, Standardized Minds, and Penguins

What do you think? Join the discussion...